Its All Write

It's All Write to Teach

• It's All Write • Season 1 • Episode 9

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In Episode 9, we are back from a fall hiatus with our professor Robert Lopez (of Stony Brook University), author of eight books and numerous pieces in literary journals & magazines. Robert shares his unconventional path to becoming a writer (without having read a full book 'till his 20s!), his thoughts on voice & form, how playing music impacts his fiction, and how teaching has allowed him to build a comfortable writing life for himself. 

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Robert Lopez is the author of seven novels and one non-fiction book (listed below with links to purchase). His fiction, nonfiction, and poetry has appeared in dozens of publications, including Bomb, The Threepenny Review, Vice Magazine, New England Review, The Sun, and the Norton Anthology of Sudden Fiction – Latino. He teaches at Stony Brook University and has previously taught at Columbia University, The New School, Pratt Institute, and Syracuse University. He lives in Brooklyn, New York.

Robert's Books

For more of Robert's work visit his website: www.robertlopez.net

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Robert:

for me, the most urgent voices are the ones that I pay attention to and it's hard to define what urgency means. But there's something to the manner in which the writer puts together language that invites the reader and almost demands the, of the reader to keep going.

Ariana:

Hi, I'm Ariana McLean.

Meryl:

And I'm Meryl Branch Mc Tiernan.

Ariana:

And you're listening to, it's All Right, the podcast about the writing life and those who live it.

Meryl:

Today we're excited to host our professor, Robert Lopez, who is the author of eight books his most recent book, The Best People, is a novel in stories and was published in April of 2025. He now teaches at Stony Brook University and has previously taught at Columbia the New School, Prat Institute, Syracuse University, and he lives in Brooklyn. Hi Robert. Thanks for joining us.

Ariana:

Hi Robert.

Robert:

Hi, Meryl. Hi Ariana. It's good to see you both.

Ariana:

Yeah, I know I haven't seen you since I graduated, Robert was my thesis advisor for my collection of short things. But Meryl's been in your workshop consistently?

Meryl:

a super, super

Robert:

There's always a place for Meryl

Ariana:

so what keeps you coming back to Robert's class?

Meryl:

well, I'd like to be beaten up a little bit about my writing. I don't wanna get too confident I could always rely on Robert to tell me the truth about what I'm writing and be funny and smart

Ariana:

And Robert, how would you describe your teaching style?

Robert:

Oh God. I would try not to describe it. But, just a lot of conversation, a lot of back and forth with everybody participating.

Ariana:

And you've taught at a lot of schools. Is there anything that I guess stands out about the Stonybrook Brook group? Or the

Meryl:

program

Ariana:

itself? The program

Robert:

yeah, I think the sense of community at Stony Brook is really strong and. I really appreciated that. So that's what stands out the is the

Ariana:

Nice. And that kind of aligns with your, workshop model as well is very community driven.

Meryl:

Yeah. I definitely, actually didn't really go out after class until I came to your class,

Robert:

Well, I'm glad to hear that because I think it's an important, element of the whole graduate school experience is to mingle and mix with your peers and start laying the groundwork of real friendships that'll last for you, the rest of your creative lives.

Meryl:

Yeah, and I think when you're in workshop with people who, you know outside of workshop, you have more trust and more, it's easier to be

Robert:

No question. No question. The familiarity. Is a good thing.

Meryl:

So I just finished reading your first book part of the World, and I really enjoyed it. And I was struck by how the voice,'cause I've only read six of your books but the voice is very consistent across all of them. And I'm wondering how do we get voice? What does voice mean? Like I, I know it when I see it, but I don't know how to describe it.

Robert:

Yeah, that would make two of us. for me, voice has to reside somewhere within urgency. for me, The most urgent voices are the ones that I pay attention to. And it's hard to define what urgency means. But there's something to the manner in which the writer puts together language that invites the reader and almost demands the, of the reader to keep going. And that's what I respond to as a reader. And I suppose in everything I've ever written that was what I was thinking, is that the voice in and of itself beyond any narrative that may or may not be in play, that the voice is going to be compelling enough for somebody to stay with it.

Meryl:

Yeah, and I think what's remarkable about your books is that sometimes the subjects are like very mundane, like buying a new car or an old car or like moving a couch, but somehow you make it feel like the most urgent thing in the world.

Robert:

Yeah. To, to me, it's always in those ridiculous quotidian moments that. We learn about who we are and what we're capable of and what we're not capable of, and all the rest. you know, As far as"Part of the World" goes, when I first started the book, and this is a long time ago now the book was published 18 years ago. And it was started many years before that. But when I just started writing about this old used car I had. I had the idea that, okay, I'll just describe this car and see what happens. And then it became clear that, oh the narrator was involved in an accident. And so there's that image of like broken glass and certain things. I haven't looked at the book in many years, but yeah. Okay, I'm gonna start with a car. But then why is the car important? And it turns out it's because there was an accident and then it turns out that maybe somebody was hurt. Maybe it was the narrator, maybe it wasn't, maybe somebody was killed. Maybe it was the narrator, maybe it wasn't. All the questions are questions and remain questions, but it was at the time, a pleasant experience to, to just start off with writing about a car and then find all these other things

Meryl:

So did you not really know the answers to any of those questions as you were writing? You were just like, we'll figure it out.

Robert:

yeah, I had no idea. I'm just, I was just describing some guy, trying to buy a car and and then then the rest just revealed itself.

Ariana:

Would you say that that is still part of your writing process? Like just starting with something and seeing where it takes you?

Robert:

Yeah, absolutely. I've never had an idea for anything I've never tried to write about any subject at all. Other than the nonfiction book. The nonfiction book had its own motivations and unique method of composition but the other books all started with just language and then whatever damage or issues or, whatever was on my head, was gonna find its way into the work and, hopefully there was enough there to make something cohere.

Meryl:

That's something I've noticed in my writing when I write something in a certain mood, like how I'm feeling on Wednesday. And then you go back next Wednesday and you're a different person. Oh yeah. And it's hard to figure out, like I feel like the story can change because of that mood.

Robert:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And so part of the task of being an artist and being a writer is to tap into what you originally started with, if that was what is the most compelling, because maybe how you feel one Wednesday and how you feel on other Wednesday, that might vary, but what, what mood is going to be the most compelling way to tell the story. So yeah, that's a decision to make. And I can think of, for instance, I'm trying to think of a specific song, but I know of songs where they're recorded as up tempo numbers and also as ballads. And so the feel is so different between the two. But the actual structure of the song and the lyrics and the chords are all the same, but it's just how you go about telling the tale.

Meryl:

That brings me to another question I had, which was, how does being a musician and or being an athlete, do any of those things play into your writing?

Robert:

Certainly the music has always influenced the way I hear the I hear the language in terms of rhythm and of pitch and volume and timber and all of that register. For me the writing was influenced by the music just because I wanted to make the language itself, the kind of music, and as far as being an athlete goes playing tennis right now, like I've been doing for the last 15 years, consistently maniacally. If I didn't do that, then I don't think I could be functional in any sort of way. I don't think I could have a job. You know, Hemingway as a writer talked about how exercising the body was important for writers and it was something that I neglected for a long time, even though I grew up an athlete played, baseball pretty seriously for a while there. I went away from it in my thirties entirely. And I found that since I came back to athletics and tennis in particular, that I need it, I need to exert the body, and if I don't, then bad things both as a writer and as a human being.

Meryl:

Do you think it's like you're like getting that energy out so that you could sit or like

Robert:

Yeah, I think it has something to do with it. And there's something about this, the endorphins, I had a serious injury for a while and couldn't play tennis for over seven months. And that was a bad scene. The lack of endorphins, I actually felt my brain chemistry change so it feeds you. It feeds me, certainly. And I couldn't imagine doing anything without it.

Ariana:

We have to the body and the mind. I know. Oh my gosh. It's hard to be in these meat suits.

Robert:

It is hard to be in the meat suits. These bodies are ridiculous.

Meryl:

So what I noticed was a big difference between your first and your last book was that the first one was one long thing with no chapters, and the last one was like more fragmented and much shorter, much more broken up. Is that like a style that you prefer now, or is it just how you felt for that book, or what do you think?

Robert:

Yeah. I think, for"Part of The World" that one needed to be very dense, given the subject matter, given the narrator and the world he occupied it needed to have this uninterrupted feeling for, there's no chapter breaks. I believe there's a part one and part two.

Meryl:

There's one star somewhere I think that was it.

Robert:

exactly. There's a star that indicates there's the second act if you will. So I did provide one break there. And yeah every time I've ever done anything on the page, the form has presented itself pretty early on in the process and it became intrinsic to the process of doing the work. And it's only been, maybe I've only monkeyed with form. And what I mean by that is written something in one form, took a look at and then put it in a different form just to see how it felt. And to be even more specific, it, it was like either long, uninterrupted paragraphs say, or short little bits that cut in and out and use a lot of white and for me it's always like what effect is the aim and what am I trying to go after and does it suit the narrative consciousness of the character.

Ariana:

That's really interesting. It sounds like you are you're aware of all the things that are happening, the visual on the page, the, the writing, the sound of the writing, the voice. So do you ever, do you consider yourself a poet? I feel like the only other writers who kind of speak, I think so highly of the visual and the sound often claim to be, or consider themselves poets.

Robert:

Yeah, I don't really concern myself with labels, right? So thinking, I don't even call myself a writer when I meet somebody used to tell people I was a jockey and and then I'll just say I teach and hopefully that'll end the conversation. But yeah, for me, poetry, the properties of poetry are always the goal on the page. It might not be a formal poem. It might not have, stanzas or line breaks or anything, but the effect is what I'm going for and certainly the musicality of the language and all the properties of poetry I want to employ

Ariana:

Do you pull inspiration from any one thing, any person thing or with that, because it seems like you're creating your own hybrid art, if you will. I guess we all are, but it seems somewhat non-traditional in the way that you explain your writing process.

Robert:

Yeah, and it's the only way I know how to do it, I could never, write a story about a particular subject matter. Write a story about a guy who shows up at work one day and then his boss calls him in and tells him whatever, I couldn't do that. I wouldn't know how to do it. So yeah, I don't remember what the question is, is or no, or maybe, or sometimes.

Ariana:

The questions just guide the conversation. They're not necessary. But I guess about that a little birdie told me, didn't read much as a kid. So how did you come to words on the page?

Robert:

so how that happened for me, I didn't read a book really, certainly not a literary book until I was in my early twenties after college. When I was an undergrad, I studied directing. TV and film kind of stuff. And for our senior project, we had to produce our own television show. And as the students, we were responsible for everything, building the set, making the set, doing the lighting, doing the casting, directing, editing and writing the script. And I always had it in my head and I don't know why'cause I certainly hadn't written anything and I hadn't read anything, but I always had in my head that I was a writer or was going to be a writer so I volunteered to write the script for our show and I wrote a guy goes into rob, a liquor store and the cops show up. You don't see the cops. They're off the stage, but. He's in there, in the liquor store with the clerk who works at the liquor store and one other customer. And so we hired professional actors to do it. And when I heard those actors say my words, I said, yeah, you know what? I gotta do this. This is what I wanna do. And so my goal was after graduation for that summer to write a screenplay. And I opened up my college lit anthology, which I didn't do when I was in the class, and I started reading it and instead of writing a screenplay, I wrote a hundred really bad poems and two stories, and I I had a new path and so it really took over for me and that's how I came to writing.

Meryl:

So that kind of transitions to how you have been doing some screenwriting lately. So now you're back at that.

Robert:

Now I'm back at that and it feels really good. I, I write with my best friend and and writing partner. We've done two TV projects where we have a pilot script and a bible and all that jive, and we're finishing up a film script. We actually believe we should finish it this week and we've been working on this film now for months and months and maybe even over a year, but it we're pretty much done with it. We're just going the thing is we do it on Zoom. He lives in Washington state. And we said that until we read it straight through, without changing anything, it's not done. And so we've been changing and tightening it and it's a wonderful process. The collaborative element is so enjoyable, right? Because as writers of prose, more than 99 times out of a hundred, you're just doing it on your own and you're in your room or you're in a cafe by yourself and you're doing a thing. But when you're collaborating with somebody it just changes the entire experience.

Meryl:

So in your books you have a lot of like thoughts, like there's a ton of thoughts. Do you miss giving people thoughts or how do you deal with that?

Robert:

It's all dialogue and it's all in the writing to de describe the setting and such like that, right? Yeah, it's just another way of using language. You lose the interiority. And that's where actors are so wonderful because they bring it right. They bring their talent to those silent moments in between the lines that convey the thoughts. you, it's really very collaborative on that end. The actor brings so much to it that's where the interiority resides.

Ariana:

Yeah. We were talking to Meryl's writing partner about how. It basically the work becomes something new at each stage. Like after you write it and once you start having actors act it, it's a new beast. And are you ready to release that control? or Would you want to direct or act in that?

Robert:

Certainly not act. I'cause when we read the script aloud to each other every so often I like, ooh, I deliver that line pretty But then the next line, I completely butcher. Yeah, I can never do the acting, but directing is something that I, I um, want do. I did a lot of it as a undergrad and it was a lot of fun. It was how do you work with actors to get them to give you the performance that you want. How much, you let them bring all of themselves to it and you just kind of. You know, i'm always very, a light touch with with everybody with writers I work with or musicians, or So I'm looking forward to and eventually very much want to direct something that Sam and I write.

Meryl:

Are you gonna have to fight with Sam over who gets to direct or are, do you

Robert:

No, we've already thought of ourselves as the kind of. Joel and Ethan Cohen kind of combination where you don't really know who's directing. They they put one name as director and one name as producer, they're collaborating the entire way. So yeah, it'll be like that.

Ariana:

I think you, I can really see you being a director'cause you guide, mentees and students. I feel like that's key skill or characteristic of a director. And also you, I think you know what you want and you know what you like. And I directors that I've worked with in the past that are very young and green, they rely too much on other people's. thoughts like you have to be the one who's guiding the ship, and between I think you and your friend, you know your vision.

Robert:

I think, yeah, for me, the way I look at it is I have an idea about how I want the scene to go. But if this is where you really allowed the actors, all the creative input that they could muster, that if they come up with something that I wasn't thinking about or anticipating, but it feels good, and it looks good and it sounds good, then you know, I'm more than happy to go in that direction.

Ariana:

That's the magic.

Robert:

right. But that is, that's the magic where, so like a film, a filmmaker, like. Hitchcock, for instance, he said, oh, actors are just sheep and you have to, herd them around. I, don't see it that way and would never go to a project with that kind of attitude.

Ariana:

Meryl has a book that is in the, it's in the throes of publication and is available for pre-order. When's it, due to debut

Meryl:

June 2nd.

Ariana:

And Meryl was saying that Robert,'cause you have gone through publication, all the books are out. People ask you all the questions about your book and Meryl is wondering about advice for when people ask the dreaded question: what's your book about?

Meryl:

Oh yeah. What do you say to that?

Robert:

I, I always try to come up with an answer that will, shame the person asking it. What's it about? It's about 200 pages. Something like you could just do that. Otherwise, I, you could also, come up with some stupid kind of metaphor. It's about an old lady tripping in the park, and skining her knee. That's what the book is about and you you there's no old lady.

Meryl:

it's not to get them to

Robert:

can speak in metaphor. But if you wanna be straightforward, I say just give like this a synopsis of the book in the most brief manner possible.

Meryl:

Yeah, I always just wanna kill myself,

Speaker 5:

like,

Ariana:

just read it. You get it, you

Speaker 5:

read

Ariana:

it, and then you'll know

Robert:

Yeah, exactly. About art or talking about a book and the kind of, what's it about? Language is always a ridiculous endeavor.

Meryl:

Right, because I'm never gonna read a book because of what it's about. that's not, another question I had about, is there anything that you wish you had known when you had your first book published that you think I should know?

Robert:

That's a good question.

Meryl:

Finally,

Robert:

no, I can't think of anything that I wish I had known before I had the first book. I'm sorry. That's pretty, yeah. There's nothing that I wish I had known then that I know now that would've made that experience more enjoyable, or, yeah. I never took anything for granted. Every book I've ever written. Feels like the last book I'll ever write and I think if you do that, if you go in with that kind of attitude, then you really appreciate any conversation around'cause you could think of, this is the last time I'm ever going to do it.

Meryl:

What was the most fun part about any of it?

Robert:

You know, having, just having individual people, and it's almost always writers, right? But having individual people say something about the book and what it meant to them and what, it maybe challenged them to do as writers. That one reader who, who gets it and who appreciates it and moves them to wanna make something. That's always been, the most enjoyable part. When smart people, smart, talented people, take the time to review the book or wanna talk about the book in an interview, that's the reward. That's, you feel like you're slaved away at a thing alone in a room, and now you get to have some interaction with other people. It's not just in your own head. Once you're done with the book and it becomes this object, it's not your book anymore. It's your book until it becomes an actual book that you could hold in your hand, and then after that it's not your book anymore The book belongs to whoever reads it.

Meryl:

Do you ever have the reaction from people that is like totally not what you meant or intended at all and then they come up to you and they've seen it in a different way?

Robert:

That goes to. What maybe I intimated earlier in that I never mean anything. I never intend anything, so any reaction from a reader doesn't contradict anything on my end because I never think about it. So it, it's all delightful. And people will say things and find things in the books that never even occurred to me. I think that's really cool.

Meryl:

As far as in your last book so you have all, you have a few named characters and they sort of circle around each other. How do you think of them? do, Is there like a truth to them and who they are or does it change.

Robert:

Yeah, to me it changes probably when Manny appears as this oftentimes bigger than life character in a couple pieces, or he is referred to that way by the narrator. But then in other pieces Manny is not referred to in that manner. And I like that ambiguity and confusion and whether or not that speaks to one Manny or multiple Manny's, and maybe everybody's a Manny or everybody in is a Esperanza in this book. I have a better idea of Esperanza, but she wouldn't be distinguishable from the other two characters who were named and appear more in"A Better Class of People" and maybe even"Good People." But, those names they're probably all interchangeable.

Meryl:

And esparanza means hope

Robert:

and esp it means hope. Right? Which most of the work seems pretty hopeless. I thought it was interesting that the character's name is Hope

Meryl:

Yeah, I like that. In the best people you have the, I had to bring up a sexual question. The the two stories, the attempted sex and an attempted human relations which were like the man's perspective of a sexual encounter, and then the woman's. Like of the same encounter did you know you were gonna do that or how did that end up working out?

Robert:

I first wrote that story in attempted sex from the man's point of view. And then when I was putting together the book, I knew that story was gonna be a part of it. I, at some point it occurred to me, Hey, what if you try? So it's one of the few times where I've actually had an idea and I said, okay, what if you write the same story but from the woman's point of view and how would it change? How would it change how they look at that particular evening that they spent And so it was a lot of fun to, to write it from the two different persepctives.

Meryl:

And I like that it like bookends the book a little bit.

Robert:

The, the sequencing of the stories and placing those two far enough apart that when you read the second one, I hope the experience is uncanny that, okay, wait a minute. Did I read this one before? I wanted that effect, so I didn't want the stories to be back to back in the book. I wanted there to be a lot of space inbetween.

Meryl:

'Cause then you feel like you've gone through a journey or

Ariana:

Yeah, What's it called in in mu I was thinking like, I feel like that's how, like oftentimes you craft a, an album, right? It's not a bunch of singles. Like they, they are talking to each other. The order in which you place stories matter. How have you pieced together this writer's, this writing life of yours?

Robert:

I've been teaching now for about 25. And as a graduate student and maybe a couple years after graduate school, I worked in restaurants while teaching

Ariana:

that's me right

Robert:

yeah. And that's, it's not fun, but it's what you gotta do. And then eventually it could be that I could just teach all the time, full time and have, that'd be source of income. So yeah, it's been all teaching now for many and it is a good job for a writer.'cause you get to talk about writing and books and, it keeps your head in the game. But it also, particularly if you're protective of your time, it gives you the opportunity to do the work and I think that's important

Meryl:

Yeah, it's a big difference. I feel like being an adjunct

Robert:

Yeah. The adjunct hustle is I would often teach at three different schools in one semester. And I did that for years and years before I joined Stony Brook's faculty full-time.

Ariana:

Woo hoo. any

Robert:

is a hustle and it's a grind. And, but if you want do it because you don't get rich teaching, right? So if you want money, then it's not what you should be doing with your life.

Meryl:

I don't think we like

Robert:

time to make stuff then it Well, I suppose I could say everything was all right until it wasn't.

Speaker 5:

It's

Ariana:

all right until it wasn't.

Robert:

Didn't sell it right until it wasn't or until it isn't,

Meryl:

All right. Is that your final answer?

Robert:

I suppose Yes.

Meryl:

Are.

Robert:

do whatever you wanna do.

Meryl:

I love it.

Ariana:

That's actually, that's the best part.

Speaker 5:

That

Ariana:

sounds like so childish, but it like you have to do all these things in life. If you're sitting down and writing, do whatever you want

Robert:

exactly. Just don't be boring,

Meryl:

all right. Thank you.

Robert:

thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

Meryl:

We, we have another Lopez we're interviewing next, actually. Oh

Ariana:

family friend Loretta Lopez.

Robert:

Okay,

Ariana:

Yeah, she wrote a middle grade book called City Girls the month of Lopez We're back now for the second half of season one. You can tune in every other Tuesdays. So every two Tuesdays we'll have a new episode, probably until the end of the year. Please like, share, subscribe, all the things you do with internet things. You can follow us on Instagram at It's All Write, pod write spelled W-R-I-T-E. Check the show notes for links to pre-order Meryl's book, Meryl, what's it called?

Meryl:

What you should worry about,

Ariana:

In the show notes, you can also find links to Robert Lopez's work thanks for listening. Signing off. Bye bye.

Head Shot

Ariana McLean

Host
Head Shot

Meryl Branch-McTiernan

Host